Car Negotiation Guide

"To most recently Preston and all the other car salesman out there who are belittling customers on this site by saying that you shouldn't or won't deal with people for long as you make so little money than it may be time to get a new job no? I don't know many other businesses that can basically lie to a customer base and come out ahead. If you are losing so much money on Internet deals than star a dealership that doesn't have internet deals. By telling us we are only worth $70 after taxes??? Be serious. Time for a new job Preston. Maybe those bottom 60% of you that only make $40k a year should quit and work in the healthcare industry. They need you, you'll make more than $40k a year and you'll work less. Then the best 40% of you that are making a living at it can spread out and create some healthy competition and make more money. Nobody ever says that you shouldn't make money or feed your family. But you can do that without tricking your customers at every possible angle."

"I'm a sales consultant. Consumers should know that cars are marked up on average of 5% to 20% on new cars. So you really should approach any negotiation with a win win mindset. Really you should be willing to find a medium so the sales consultant can feel successful and you the consumer can feel successful. Thus a Win Win. Are there greedy consumers and sales consultant? Yes! But greed will create a Win Win situation."

"Let's review some of the comments made by these car sales people. First of all, why is it that the most scrutinized and untrusted sales people are car sales people? Is that just coincidence? I particularly liked Preston who was very candid about showing customers the door. I wonder how much business Preston does with that attitude. Then there was Michael who boldly told us that when we buy milk, groceries, pens, hats, socks, chocolates etc, we don't negotiate those advertised prices as we do with advertised car prices. Well here's my answer Michael. When we walk into a store to buy these items if we decide to leave without making a purchase we don't have the cashier or store manager chasing us out the door to ask us why we are leaving or asking us to explain ourselves for not making a purchase. So if you're going to make this comparison then be prepared to answer the opposite end of that ridiculous analogy. Can't we just leave if we don't like what we're hearing? I liked the comments about how these sales people need to feed their families. Your telling us it's more important for you to feed yours than it is for us to feed ours? Your logic is for us to let you overcharge us so you can feed your families? RIDICULOUS!!"

"I am a salesman guys. All of your advice sounds well and good when you know nothing of the business. It may even work sometimes if you have a desperate sales person. Try to tell me you only have an hour and I will send you on your way after an attempt to reschedule you. If you don't reschedule you are still leaving cause I am not wasting my time on you. You cant buy a car in an hour PERIOD. Lie to me in any way and I will probably kick you out of the store. This includes people who lie about having a trade in, people who say they are buying and intend to lease, and any other lie. And if you try to strong arm me with the "I will go elsewhere routine" Then you better have done your homework and have a workable number for me. If you don't I will tell you to go shop elsewhere myself so that you are wasting someone elses time and not mine. Most deals today are internet deals with thousands off of MSRP. The commissions on these deals are usually around $100. I will not waste alot of time with someone only worth $100 to me. And that is what you are if your an internet customer. Remember that: you are nothing more than a $100 bill. ($70 after taxes) So ask yourself how hard you will work for that and how many hours you would spend on that"

"I like the negotiating tips that you share. Specifically, I like the idea of being flexible. If a sales person knows that you want a particular car, that is a bargaining chip for them. That also allows them to easily compare other prices on the same make and model and know how good the price they are giving you is."

"I've worked in the automotive industry for 16 years. I've watched the income of our hard working men in women steadily decline every year as the internet becomes a bigger part of how people shop. Where besides a car dealership, do people expect to receive a service and not compensate the person providing it?
I worked about 65 hours a week last month. Most with most of that being glued to a computer sending price quotes to customers who were stroking 5 other salesmen from other stores, right along with me. I ran back and forth across a few acres of cars in the rain or hot sun. I had days I left my house at 7 AM and was still working a deal (for below invoice on a $65K piece of inventory) at 10:30 at night. I sold 15 cars which isn't too shabby. All this for about $3700 gross income. I do have an education and am very good at what I do by the way. How was your month? Did you have to battle with your clients to just get paid for your services? You tell me, am I leading you to believe I'm over worked and underpaid?
Eventually all the good people in the car business will figure out that it just isn't worth it anymore. You'll be left buying a car from some schmo making $10 an hour regardless if you buy the car or not. You should apply"

"I just bought a 2004 civic and within a week it was returned due to oil pump seal leak.
They tried to repair it and it still leaked, tried again to repair it and we decided that we did NOT want the car and looked for another newer car from same dealer.
Now they are transferring the down payment we gave for the civic over to the newer car. My question is this.

We already paid $699 dealer fees for the civic. Now they are doing a new contract
And in their fees I see a $699 dealer fee in the total. Can they legally add the $699 again ???
We are getting one car from them !"

" Dealers are now ripping customers off when customers start haggling prices, when the customer insists that the price get lowered to a point where they cannot get a profit they immediately ask the service guy to go in the car and change some expensive original part for a generic part so they can make money. People think they are smart but in reality they are stupid enough to think that dealers will sell you for a price that they cannot afford."

"anyone whom self professed salesperson says this fear the cheat type info is probably short term or dishonest and we are glad to be rid of them. true professionals dont have issues. find reputable dealers dont play lying games. mixed messages will waste your time and get you the wrong vehicle.a quality salesperson will help you make the correct choice. use internet price sites as research. use more than one many give different prices. dont treat human beings poorly,it belittles all partys involved. find dealers with high satisfaction scores. you will get the best service.remember buying a vehicle is not a game.professionals dont act foolish. niether should you. in this economy many jobless people have found careers in sales. that doesnt make them cheats and liars. "

"I stumble across this website and i find it is useful but NO mention of loyalty. Think it about, if the salesman spend few hours showing you the car and taking you for test drive and giving you a good price and then you took his price to shop against another dealer. The other dealer beat it by $500 and they get the deal just simply doing so with just a phone call or spending just half an hour with you?? Have you ever wonder nowadays people integrity had gone out of windows? Have you ever realize what happens to people's common courtesy gone to?? This website's advice is useful but it is teaching people to treat everything as business dealings without personal emotion. It is teaching people to take salesman's time and effort for granted. Yes, it is their job but they have other opportunity to sell a car if you are not prepare to buy from them while you request service from them when other people are in the showroom ready to buy a car. Sometime a salesman need to work hard to come up with a good deal like getting their managers to agreed of a certain price or getting the valuer to pay more for your trade in and you simply take their offer to someone else to hand over your purchase to them without giving the original dealer a chance"

"I sell cars for a living and these articles are always the same. I love how when we sell a car for what it is advertised for is some how ripping someone off. If that's the case, I get ripped off ever time I buy fuel, milk, apples, socks, t-shirts, shoes, hats, soap, chocolate, pens, paper etc etc etc

Question for the author of this article, how do you do your research to write these articles? Have you sold cars for a living or do you just take a guess? Seems like you're ripping off your readers to me as you're just wasting their time by reading this and not giving enough information to get the best deal or avoid being ripped off. If anyone wants to know the best way to buy a car, it's pretty simple. Work out your budget and STICK TO IT. Remember all cars pretty much drive the same, so don't be too picky unless you have a favourite car, in which this will make buying it even easier. Don't play dealers against each other, you will be found out and this will ensure you do not get the best possible customer service for future purchases. Be honest. Same with us sales guys, when you lie, all trust and respect go out the window. If you are not willing to buy today no matter what, tell us. If we ask the reason why, tell us. This way you won't waste your time or ours. We are here to help you buy a car, not sell you one. There are more important things in life to worry about than buying a damn car, get on with it and move on. Any questions? Feel free to ask and get a frank answer. I've been selling cars for years and sell 90% at sticker price and my customers thank me for it and keep coming back and referring their family. I must be evil and ripping them off? Far from it..."

"The one thing, but possibly hardest thing when your excited and in the moment, is once you have what you in that moment consider a great deal, WALK AWAY. Tell the person you are dealing with you need to sleep on it/talk to your hubby/wife about it/consider the other offers you have against this etc. Then GO HOME, calm down, and do research on what you are about to sign onto. Think hard about how happy you are going to be in 1 or 2 years. THIS MUST BE DONE AWAY FROM THE CAR YARD. Was this really the car you wanted? Does the deal look good compared to what you can find on the internet? Worse comes to worse, the dealer says deposit now or someone else might buy it. BIG DEAL - so you find another car and deal that suits. Anyone who does not walk away before signing to get out of that moment to think clearly is going to pay for it."

"Salesman have to feed there families too and they don't get money handed to them like teachers policeman and fireman.
They expect everything for nothing and nobody else should make a dollar."

"This article has a few good points, but wasn't researched very well. With the internet available to everyone who wants it and information on every vehicles pricing available, the days of having insane amounts of mark up are over with. I just recently joined the sales force and am doing ok. I have almost always been in the top 3 salesman at my dealership and am currently in number 1 for the year. Whoever said that we sell 10 cars a week is full of bs. Unless you work in a very large city, you will never see those numbers on a regular basis. On a GOOD week we will sell 2-3 cars. Commission for a salesman on a brand new car is almost always a "mini" which is $100. About half of the cars you sell will be new. On an decent average month you will sell around 10 cars. If half of those are new, you are looking at $500 for half of the cars you've sold that month. Used cars average out between $300-400 commission depending on the car. If we average that out to 350, you are looking at $1750. Add in the $500 from the new car sales and you are at $2250/mo. We are not out to screw anyone. I love my customers and would do anything to help them out. Car sales depend on repeat customers, if you screw them they won't come back......"

"Brian the dealer wont try and rape you? LOL… The most important fact in buying a car is doing research. Yes the dealers need to make money but you can find the same car on different lots for varying amounts. The ones with lower amounts are the ones who are actually trying to move cars and make money at the same time. The ones with the higher prices are in it to screw you. "

"This article is grade A+++. Brian, one of the sales people or maybe even a car dealer himself is telling you that this information is bad advice. That's like the devil telling you that it's bad advice to go to pray to God. Of course he's going to say that! He's the devil people! So, listen to this article and beware! Car dealerships and car sales people live solely off of YOUR MONEY and the profit they make off of you. I know. I used to be a car sales person and got out of the shady business because it's so corrupt! BEWARE and take this article to heart! Thank you for exposing these people and writing this article!"

"While knowing about the dealer holdback price, it is absolutely not fair in anyway to ask for it or negotiate with it. Dealer holdback isnt a hidden amount of profit, it is used for advertising and getting the car ready to sell you. While you are trying to negotiate the delaer down, remember that as long as you are fair with them, they will be fair with you. There is an amount every dealer needs to make on a car just to keep the dealership going. If everyone negotiated past the point of invoice on a new car, a dealer wont be around long. So Be fair, be firm, dont try to rape the dealer, he wont try to rape you."

"to the car dealers: I TRIED BEING NICE.

I was looking at a 2011 Challenger. I was completely honest with him; I told him I can afford the vehicle, that I liked it and that the car seemed like a reasonable fit for me. I also explained that it is my first time buying a car (true, but I also read online some about "how to negotiate for a car"). I really just wanted to cut the BS and do a transaction like honest human beings.

He said he would give me the best price he could. He "talked to the manager" and came back, looked me straight in the eye, and said the best he can do is take $100 off the sticker price. I said, "Really, that is the best offer you can make?" He said, "Yes."

NEXT TIME: hardball.

PS: these tips are grade A"

"My husband was able to buy a mustang three years ago for 3k under what the dealer asked for it simply by having cash in hand, and the guts to walk away and come back. (7k as opposed to their desired 10)

Yesterday, I negotiated up over 1.5k for my trade in, and down about a grand on the new vehicle by using the following tactics-

I was ready to write a check for payment in full, so I had a very firm bottom line. I wasn't going to spend more than I had budgeted.

I did my research, and knew what my car as well as theirs was currently going for. I told them of this.

I brought up a negative review on google regarding their financial department.

I made phone calls regarding a vehicle I was interested in as well as this one at a different dealership.

I walked out only dropping 4.5k out of pocket for a car that's valued at about 8k, for a total 'sale price' of 8.5k all taxes/fees/what not included. They had originally been asking 10k, no taxes/fees/whatnot. The mustang has exhaust problems, the ABS light on, and a lot of cosmetic damage, so they're probably not making as much money as they like on this exchange. I'm pretty sure my husband redlined it at some point...

Not as awesome as my hubby, but still feel accomplished."

""Where else does a customer walk into a store and insist on paying only invoice - ever tried it at Macy's?"

At Macy's, the price that *everyone* pays is advertised. At Car Dealerships, the price changes from individual to individual. That's why people feel like they are being taken advantage of (do you dealers honestly claim that if you wouldn't charge an unsuspecting buyer $100 more if you could?)"

"never pay the delivery fee for a new car.
they don't pay your way to get to the dealer.
you DONT have to pay it. I bought 2 cars in the last 2 years & may have gotten robbed elsewhere but I didn't pay the delivery charge of $750 per car..."

"This was very insightful! I am going to be much better prepared to deal with pushy car salesmen now!"

"Very useful information"

"Very good information, thanks."

"there's always more than one way to get what you want. Check this out if you want another approach
http://wp.me/P1uhKF-2w"

"I know that this is an old post, but after reading it there are a few things that people do not seem to understand. You see, I am a car salesman and I agree that there are many schemes that are used to screw the consumer out of thier money. However, these schemes are NOT controlled by the sales person unless they themselves own the car lot. We all have sales managers that have all the numbers, invoices, and interest rates at their fingertips. So it's the managers that really do the screwing and NOT the sales people. While there are sales people that are really good at their job and can ask the right questions to get a better understanding of what the customer wants, most sales people have to pry hard and long to get any real information from the customer until the buying process has already started. This makes the sales process twice as hard as it needs to be. If you simply tell the sales person what you are willing to pay (AND NOTHING OVER) you will always (at least from me) get an honest answer as to whether or not the car will work for you. You as the consumer can also try telling the truth once in a while yourselves. Dont tell a sales person youre interested in anything if you are not. "

"Please read this and then come and buy a car from me... Some points in this are a given in that they are common sense things everyone should do when buying a car, or virtually anything for that matter. What this article doesn't state is regarding used cars, the money that goes into the car to go through a workshop or panel shop if needed etc... It doesn't state that dealers don't actually own these cars until after a certain amount of days, and then when those days are up the dealer has to pay them out, which is not easy for a dealership, even a big dealership!.
There ARE rip off merchants out there that get a traded car give a wash and put it on the yard, but the majority actually put the cars through a workshop to get the car up standard (These are good dealerships).
The average car salesman should make more than $40k a year! don't let anyone say otherwise because they wouldn't have a job if that's all the business they can drum up, BUT the average profit on a used car is around 9%, which if you look at a grocery store or computer store the average mark up is in excess of 35%+ then you cant really whinge.
Do Your Homework
Be flexible
Don't listen to tools and be talked out of a car if it's a good deal
BUY AT THE END OF THE MONTH"

"@S.G, you talk about how you work 6 days/50-60 hours a week, equaling $10-12 an hour/$40k a yr. I'm in the military and during exercises, I have worked 7 days/84 hours a week for 3 months straight(1 hour lunch breaks), $6-7 dollars/hour. I fix bombers that are 50 years old through the scorching hot days of summer and the coldest nights of winter.

Do you salesmen, really think you are overWORKed and underpaid? I hate my job, but I signed a contract, it was my decision. Although, I don't like my job, I'm sure there are more jobs that are much worse than mine that pays lower.

If you TRULY think you are overworked and underpaid, you have the option to quit. Finding another job shouldn't be tough, since there just so~ many jobs out there that pays over $10-12/hour for less work than what you do, right? Right."

"im a salesman, and have been selling for 5 years, i take the punt that 85% are un-educated and dont have the internet.
What you have put up is okay but at the end of the day its the dealership that offers service and warranty to the customers. if they like and trust you they will spend more and buy from you. i do the same when i go shopping."

"To the dealers complaining about customers "wasting your time" when following the tips listed: TOUGH LUCK. IT'S YOUR JOB.

1: When I walk onto the lot I get 3 people hounding me, followed by them showing me options which exceed the budget I stated or lack the prerequisites also stated. You waste your own time by trying to sell me on something you were initially told I don't want.

2: You want the highest price possible. We want the lowest. You knew this is how it works when you got hired. If you don't like it then find a new line of work.

3: It's YOUR FAULT this is even necessary. When you expect $16,000 for a car but ask $20,000 you create the necessity for strong-armed negotiations. If you asked a legit price, you'd save us both time.

4: If you think it isn't absolutely necessary for a person to go home and think over their options then you ARE A SCAM ARTIST. People must always review options in a comfortable environment before any major decision, including car purchases.

5: If customers getting low prices means you can't put food on the table, then turn down the customers offer or find a better paying job. We aren't forcing your hand. If you accept the offer then it was WITHOUT QUESTION a fair one. Don't whine."

"OMG all these reviews talking about poor poor car salesmen. Trust me we all feel REALLY sorry for you. Theives also have families to support but don't seem to try to justify ripping people off like this! I am sure people are going to go buy a car with the car salesmans family's well being in mind over their own. Give me a break. Yes, the car industry is poor right now so they should be willing to negotiate a low profit rather than none at all. As for Macy's- you poor saps that pay retail are just stupid. You may not call it a scam but it is...90% of items at Macy's go on sale for AT LEAST 25% off and patient folks can purchase clearance items at close to cost. If you are content paying retail at a department store...you go right ahead and pay more for a car b/c you pity the salesperson that pretends to be your best friend."

"first, i can appreciate your enthusiasm to want to help the uneducated consumer. second, the info that you wrote would be very helpful in buying a new or used car.....especially if the customer wanted to get the least amount of help and deal with the most unfriendly salesmen. amazing. you actually have made the process much much more difficult then it needs to be or should be. i would agree with the idea of figuring out what your needs and wants are in a vehicle first before you venture out to a dealership, tick off salesmen for wasting his valuable time, and then have a bad taste in your mouth from then on. jk. it will only help a salemen to show you what you want. trust me they dont want to spend 5 hours with someone and show them 10 cars and have them go home to think about it. also know your budget. that way the salesmen will only show you cars that will work into your budget. most importantly, salesmen are humans too. they have feelings and famlies. the word PROFIT is not a swear word...remember. if you really want a good deal just go to a dealership with a good attitude and be happy and excited. remember you are getting a new vehicle not getting ten teeth pulled. i pray for you jerks....."

"In my experience... it's pretty hard to make sure that I get the lowest price possible because dealers always have more negotiating experience than I do. If you are one of those people who doesn't have the time to waste on visiting dealer after dealer, you should check out Carsala. They have pro negotiators who will do it for you.
"

"For new car purchases, make sure you put in dealer delivery times into the negotiation and if you can include a "delivered before" date. I have been waiting weeks after when the vehicle was promised. I could have easily privately sold instead of trading in and my late model car (my10) is getting older faster."

"I would eat you alive or show you the door. Negotiating tips like these make it harder to buy the car you truley like and will be happy with. TO most people a new car is a status symbol, looks and extention of their personalilies.

THe internet is a good source of info, But the internet never deliveried a car to any of my customers or purchased their trades.

See if Vehix.com will print you a check!!!!!!"

"the article was relitively good and had some good info, however, an auto dealership and the salsmen or women, are as different as a box of super large crayons, in the way they sell cars and why. Yes the bottom line, as with any other business, or job, is to make a large enough profit to stay in business counting all the expenses involved. In the case of new car dealers you are talking investments, and therefore payments of millions of dollars to stay in business, a full page ad in any sizeable city news paper is 10s of thousands of dollars not to mention TV and radio.
as for the sales men I was one of the best in the world (top %5 5 yrs, and top 2% world wide in a 35 yr. carear) am I living in a palace in the bahamas, no im living on social security like many others. there is no retirement pay in the auto business, they have to make it while they can, and what I haven't seen here is the fact that most car people like foot ball players burn out in 3 to 5 yrs, Are there preditory dealers and sales people? Yes there are, but the truth is none of last very long"

"The average car salesmen, work 50-60 hours a week, 6 days a week. The average car salesmen makes under $40,000.00 a year. If you break that down, it is a 10-12 dollar an hour job. Some might say that is not bad, however you do not know what goes on behind the scenes. With the amount of brain damage you go through each day in the car business, it is the hardest money you can ever make. Picture this, you standing outside waiting for a customer to pull up (who hates you before they even know your name,) They spend on average 2-3 hours with you, driving different vehicles, running around the lot, presenting the vehicles and then they ask for a brochure. You did not get paid a single dime, and it's not over! Now you have to go to your sales manager, tell them the customer wants a brochure, then the managers scrutinize you "what did you do wrong?, Why won't they buy today? Did you do this? Did you say that? Than we have the walk of shame bringing the manager over to the customer, putting yourself and the customer in an uncomfortable position, all for 10-12 dollars an hour... And in regards to a comment posted on here, the average car salesmen only sells 2-3 cars per week. NOT 10!!!! "

"This figures tallies well with another link I saw on the web:

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080426144050AA1hM4H

RRP is about 8-12% over the invoice price.

There is plenty enough profit (without other charges) to look after everybody.

For a 20K car the profit would be about $2500.

Half ($1250) can cover the customer costs and half ($1250) pays for the dealer's costs.

With this the customer can have his 12 month rego and insurance fees paid for.

The dealer gives half his share ($625) to the manufacturer (3% holdback price or 'pack'). The other half ($625) gets split between the salesman and his company.

The company keeps three-quarters ($470) and the salesman gets one quarter for his commission ($155).

If the salesman sells 10 cars per week then his weekly income is $1550. Over one year that amounts to 70-80K.

I don't think anybody has to worry that the salesman is going hungry."

"thank u"

"I would love to read a truly well researched article on how to get the best deal at the dealership. This article neglects to mention the salesperson. The salesperson is the one that spends their time and energy getting to know what you are looking to buy. It's the salesperson that suffers when the customer insist on invoice pricing. Where else does a customer walk into a store and insist on paying only invoice - ever tried it at Macy's? Their true invoice price for that $60 blouse is about $2-$6 but no one ever questions that or calls it a scam. Yes I am a car salesperson. Do I expect my customers to pay full MSRP? NO But I would like to continue in a feild I enjoy and be able to take care of my family. My personal philosphy on how to get the best deal is: 1 Inform me of what you require in a car. 2. Let me know of budget restraints up front- so I don't put you in a car too high for your budget and disappoint both of us. 3. Do not demand a 'best price' or theaten me with going elsewhere, by doing this you have just assured me that I am personally not going to make any money on the deal and that you are wasting both my time and yours. 4.Remeber negotiating is expected - rudeness is not. 5. Just be nice. "

"Do your research on line, there are a lot of great resources (autotrader.com, cars.com, kbb.com). Sites like these can get you the invoice pricing. From there visit a site like priceanddrive.com and place a price a little lower than invoice. The dealerships actually compete against each other. I agree with the other comments. Always talk in terms of out the door pricing."

"I find it much easier to compare dealerships by demanding the drive out price. THis way there are no hidden fees or charges. I can then compare apples to apples.

I normally figure out the car a I want and email all dealerships in 200 miles for drive out price. I saved 2k on my last car for driving 3 hours. Thats $660 an hour. "

"To put additional pressure on the dealer, try to time your purchase in the last few days prior to their submission of figures for the current sales quarter. This timing can vary, but is consistent between dealers of a particular manufacturer. Call around prior to detailed negotiation, it can be a question the dealer will be happy to answer."

"A lot of car dealerships will focus on a monthly payment, rather than the purchase price. So, for example, if you say you want to pay $300 a month, they will gladly do that - but perhaps for 72 months.

Make sure you understand what you are willing to pay and exactly what the payments will end up being and for how long."

"Anyone who is seriously looking for a used car need only go to a brokerage or dealership where there is a "one price" policy. I work for a brokerage selling "off lease" vehicles and we don't negotiate on price 1 cent. Cars are a marketable good, like apartments and gasoline. A good dealer will research the specific market you are buying the car in and price the car he is selling competitively for that market. Not all dealers charge dealer handling fees or filing fees. NEVER BUY NEW!"

"Got ripped off by a dealer on my first set of wheels. Wish I'd read this first. Thing was he seemed so friendly - guess that it was shallow charm. So the hard knocks school of negotiation slapped me with a bill of $750 (the overcharge)."